CV Development - Crafting Your Academic Narrative

So great to see you all we are here today to talk to you about developing your CV um and we'll talk a lot about using elements today elements is not the only way to develop your CV and you may or may not think it's the best way to develop your CV but that's up to you but what we're going to do is show you some examples through elements on how to develop your CV as well okay is by the end of today's session we hope that you're gonna you're gonna be able to acknowledge and recognize uh the purpose of preparing an effective CV and really describe the importance of both the content and the organization and really be able to develop your own CVS hopefully by the end and I hope you all have brought your CVS for our help in preparing them so your CV in a portfolio what are the differences what are you all envision as a difference between a CV and a portfolio poor um that you put them before do you all have both the CV and a portfolio don't have a portfolio yet I think that's specifically designed for promotion uh typically a lot of times and that's what we use them for here exactly you need to be developing them okay well um after this we are happy to help you develop a portfolio as well we have examples of what's to be included in a portfolio but really a CV is sort of a listing of your activities your accomplishments um and describes what you have done the the CV is the primary mode of um documenting your accomplishments relevant to appointment when you're first hired on um you've had to recently submit your CV reappointment um also promotion tenure all of those types of things okay the portfolio or sometimes referred to as a dossier Virginia Tech proper refers to it is a dossier is really the evidence behind that so in the days of old um you would have your CV and and maybe a CV is a part of your portfolio but in in the rest of your portfolio before they went online and became electronic um you would have like a big black binder I remember this um in all of these different sections and you just had um like your presentation section it would include maybe evaluations and things that you have um it would include power points that you've presented all of this information and now um most of that is done I I think I completed my that of my last promotion and 18 18 or 19. and I still have all of my records and or I still have all of those files those sections but they're electronic so I have a folder for each of my main sections and their electronic versions of my um evaluations or my presentations and things like that so it's the evidence behind that it's sort of like a a living breathing examples okay so these are sometimes confused and sometimes heard within the same conversation so we talked a little bit about what a CV is a bio sketch is often that super brief usually around a paragraph maybe up to a page of information often used um for introductions I usually think of it as like an introduction if somebody were introducing me for presenting something this is the information that I might include sometimes a little bit longer some I usually like to keep them at a paragraph which is really hard to distill down all of that information within a paragraph right I'm just going to say if you if you're submitting an NIH Grant you're familiar with that NIH pile sketch it's a form that they give you the job to fill out a lot of other granting agencies have something similar they want your buy schedule but they'll say here's what it needs to look like yeah they have a very formal for a bioskemption making that point a resume so I just recently I saw this little reel um that talked about resumes of today and resumes a lot of times you hear outside of medicine in different professions and things like that I remember in undergrad when they were helping us to develop a resume they were like it should be less than one page or something along those lines just to Highlights um I can't imagine you know some of the CVS that I see are like 130 pages not my CV um you know CVS of people uh later on in their seniority um but and I saw this real the other day and it said these are the things you need to update on your CV if you have more than 10 years of experience you don't need to include it on your CV because that's dating you I'm like we better have more than 10 years of our experience included in a CV right you want as much as possible within your CV and so those are some of the differences between a CV and a resume it's like resumes more highlights um and not usually used within academics Okay so certainly but they're all included within your CV so we want to make sure that we are keeping our CV up to date um there are a lot of different we all have to keep our elements as faculty within Virginia Tech curling School of Medicine we all have to keep our elements database up to date right and you develop your own Rhythm for doing so so for me I really try very hard um whenever I do something that belongs in my CV on my CV or within elements I try to do it right away as soon as I think about it or as it's coming up if I'm thinking about oh I've got this presentation coming up I'm going to enter it now and I'll just enter the future dates on there um it becomes more challenging the longer you wait because then you're relying on your memory and we have a lot of other things going on in our brains um and that really uh uh adds on to the cognitive load if you have all these other things that you have to remember when you try to learn and you're trying to teach and you're trying to care for patients and you're trying to do research whatever all those additional things in your mind contribute to your cognitive load so just offset a couple little things and do it as soon as possible as your um when you first come into uh the system you can have somebody there I would strongly encourage having somebody help you get everything loaded into the system and then as much as you can keep it up yourself and there is within each department there's an elements expert um so learn who that person is and become friends with them chocolate maybe but they will help you understand what needs to be in and then there will be points at which you're like can you please just get this information in so things like professional productivity in regards to um continuing professional development for example anything that we conduct here within the organization within your department or with our department teach or professional development if it has CME associated with it even if you don't claim CME if it has CME associated with it and you sign in it will automatically go into elements for you okay it may take a little bit could be up to three months sometimes before it gets in there but you don't have to worry about adding that if you sign in okay that's one of the benefits of signing in if it's outside we don't know anything about the outside if you go to a a big conference or something a specialty conference and you attend uh various sessions you just have to remember to add that in yourself okay okay so there's four main areas that we have the opportunity to demonstrate our productivity right within the The Faculty system so that's teaching clinical care and the presence of Learners service and scholarly activity or research um so when you're going up for promotion you have to do you are committing to demonstrating excellence in two of these areas okay so for all of you I know that this is going to be one of them right clinical care um and hopefully teaching will be one of them they're not limiting you to two areas of Excellence because but it's becoming more and more difficult to be like a quadruple star and be excelling in the the expected ways in all of these areas right so they want you to be involved in all of these areas if you are a clinician if you're not in clinician you can skip this one um but they want you to be involved in all those areas but when you're going up promotion just really you need to highlight at least two of them okay we want you to keep your CV up to date there will be a date on your CV that tells you when it was last generated fortunately it does not at this point tell you when it was less updated that would be super helpful um but you want to make sure it's updated with all your recent activities include everything that you've accomplished and there's a variety of things that you'll include and I'll show you in just a minute a step like I mentioned you're going to establish your own Rhythm either as it happens or maybe on a monthly basis every Friday whatever you establish that rhythm um an updated the school considers updated to be within the last six months so if they ask you for it they just want to update it within the last six months some of the other things it's used for a CV or elements is uh your annual review um your annual academic review um when when you present somewhere and you're providing CV they're going to ask you for an updated CV okay to demonstrate that you have the knowledge um and the experience to be an expert in that area to provide the CME uh there is a new CV guide available I will tell you in preparation for this session um I read through it it is so helpful I learned so much from it um and a lot of the things I'll talk to you about today we'll talk to you about today um are included within this but if you just want to glance through the things that I didn't even know and I'm um really involved in all this a lot of the time so it's 14 pages it's worth a skim through I'll say that okay sorry so uh this is a link but it's directly on the faculty Affairs website so you go to btcsom faculty Affairs and you'll find it right there okay and and all this may be different from other CVS I know I've seen other CV formats differently but all of your entries should appear the most recent first so in Reverse chronological order okay these are your main CV sections just take a look at these and think are there any questions you have about these like these there are two pages of these actually um like personal information the days of yesterday we would include our name and our address um maybe even our social security number I guess you can add you can include your cell number this came up last time if you don't have another phone like a business phone that you would want to use but we really uh advise against including personal information if when you're going for an interview or something which I hope you're not going for an interview away from here at any point in the near future um but you might include some personal information at the end but I recall seeing um sometimes people would write I'm married to so and so I love hiking and which is great information to have if you're having a discussion with um with a potential um new institution a new boss but maybe save that information for the end of the document but never your social security number nothing personal in the home none of that um should be included right uh your educational history as I said all of this should be listed reverse chronological um any awards and honors do not forget to include that any scholarly activity that you've worked on that includes if you've helped or you've LED developing uh curricula within your residency program or your clerkship or whatever within your department include that on there um I remember recently sitting in a session with somebody who had done really cool things a really cool project and it was a long project and she said I could probably put that on my CV I said you absolutely need to put that on your CV that's included within the scholarly output grants contracts all of these so I even part of what I learned as a part of reviewing this document is even if a grant is unfunded that's a lot of work to pull together a grants application right if you don't get it funded it's like but you still at least get credit for it on here and you wanna that doesn't mean you stop trying and you don't continue to go after other grants but still put it on here um your intellectual property any Consulting you do that's either inside or outside here um all professional committees this is you know local Regional National um so one of the my strongest recommendations oftentimes somebody new will come in and they'll say how do I get involved even people who've been here for years how do I get more involved in the med schools I don't know anything about our Med students or anything get involved in a committee a committee is a perfect that's how I learned so much about our med school and about our medical students is being involved in committees they're a vast array um and annually they send out nominations you can self-nominate for committees if something seems like it would be attractive to you and doable self-nominate or encourage somebody else to nominate you um but and also don't hesitate which I've always been a little hesitant to say oh I want this community and this coming in this community because there's there are several committees that you can um dominate yourself for because I don't want to take the chance that I could win the nomination for multiple committees right I you only have so much bandwidth um but Doctor music is very involved in the whole nomination that the committee process um and he has assured me that if somebody wins multiple seats um they they will at the leader upper leadership level sort of judiciously uh determine and have conversations with um the faculty member to determine which are most desired or most appropriate so don't be afraid to nominate yourself for multiple um and and don't feel bad if the first year maybe you don't um get your desired committee keep trying and keep putting yourself on those committees sometimes there's like whole list of people who apply for or nominate for a committee and sometimes there's just a few so keep going uh professional membership so specialty ones uh uh National Regional all of those um memberships make sure to include those within your on your CV which is um them through elements this is where David Dr music takes over I will try to take us the rest of the way here leaving plenty of time for oh yeah I was talking or an individual work anybody have any questions about anything we've covered so far I do have questions um so if you're putting in a grant let's say you're you're you put in a proposal uh and you select that you want to keep it private until you know whether you're funded or not does elements give you the option to go back and switch that over now to to publicly visible if you put it in you can put it in I believe in process or under consideration or something like that if if it doesn't get funded you just leave it that way but if it does you go back in and say funded okay there's a question there's like five different levels yeah submitted on funded yeah thinking about it yeah great idea try next time okay thank you well the you know the process of preparing a good CV is inherently about self-promotion right and I think that's what makes it a little difficult sometimes is because most people are not that anxious to promote themselves now there are exceptions to that we all but still for the most part most people are a little bit like I don't know if I'm doing too much or overdoing it but just you know this is this is the place where it is perfectly acceptable and strongly encouraged to be your own best self-promoter because you want to make sure that when you put your CV together it shines and you present a very thorough and full picture of everything that you were doing and have done so let's keep that in mind so here's a couple of sample entries that we took out of the CV guide the first one is an example of how to enter a journal article anything about that stand out to you or see that's pretty standard citation format right so you'll notice that that's a publication that I was part of and in my CV when I print that out of elements if my name will be bolded which is kind of a nice little touch when you print your CV then somebody's scanning down the Publications and they can quickly see like author authorship order which in some disciplines is a big deal you're a first author you're a last author or whatever the other thing about this everybody know what these weird looking letters and numbers are up here so the DOI number is more recent than the pmid number both of these are uh numbers that are assigned to Publications that make them easily easy to find and track down pmid is part of the National Library of Medicine so if you ever logged into PubMed and look for something that's where those numbers are assigned the National Library of Medicine assigns a unique number to every article so that's your pmid PMC ID is seeing less often it's kind of a subset of pmid in that this database only contains full-text articles DOI is relatively new and it's but it's rapidly replacing pmid so when you when I look at a lot of CVS I almost always now see a DOI number if there is one sometimes I'll see a pmld but it seems like DOI is now sort of replacing the pmid number so DOI stands for digital object identifier and it's a unique string that's attached to your publication most of the time but not all the time but most journals also turn that into a link so if you copy and paste that into your CV you can turn it into a link very easily and that way if somebody's scrolling down through your CV and they see your articles and they come across one that's really of great interest to them they'd like to look at it is click on the link and it takes them right to it now sometimes it doesn't do that automatically so and I think if you manually enter a DOI number in the elements system it will not convert it to a link you'll have to do that yourself but a lot of times you'll see the the DOI numbers now that have instead of starting with DOI it'll have the https slash and that that tells you that it's online it's a link you can turn that into a link if you want so encourage you to use that when you're putting your CV together uh if you're like me I had to go back through my CV and find all the DOI numbers because I had not been routinely doing that and so that took me a little time to go back and look all this up but I just copied and pasted them into into my CV and put them in made sure they were in elements so that they would come out in the future so that's pretty important becoming very popular this is an example of a presentation and so again that's one that came out of my CV and the key components there are what well you've got your list of authors right okay you've got the name of the meeting annual meeting Society of academic continuing medical education you've got the title of your presentation you've got where it was and then you've got the date all of those are very important parts of an entry for a presentation but that that gives a really complete picture of what meeting you presented at and who the authors were and what the title was now this may seem obvious but again I read a lot of CVS and I'll see a lot of entries for presentations that'll just have like one line it won't tell you the date and we'll tell you the city and we'll tell you the name of the meeting they'll maybe just have the title of the presentation in the year and that's okay but it's not enough local presentations here within Germany you can so when when the software spits out your CV it'll categorize things into the sections so there will be a section that's labeled local sometimes people will go ahead and type Roanoke Virginia in there it's not really necessary but you know if you're like me you want to be consistent then you want to have a place for every one of your presentations that I would typically type Roanoke Virginia in there into the field into the database so that when it comes out Roanoke is listed there yep um when I had it I promoted and just got promoted so look congratulations oh thanks um the cycle last time when we switched over to elements okay and bless your heart yeah I mean I learned a lot about lots of things but um it was a long road but one of the things that um it one of the things we noticed um Dr Emily Fox and I did it kind of together yeah is that there are a couple fields that if you don't put them in they're in elements pull them into your CV they won't pull so it's interesting because I think what we learned was the location the city and state and the and the time I had originally put just all the dates in the city and instead of nothing was falling over so that is I think critically important yeah I think I'm I'm sorry to hear that I think we need to go back and double check that it's it has to do with the um template for the report so if your template should say pull it from these fields of the database and so we may have missed one or something yeah well I think it's helpful because I didn't know that that was even a critical piece yeah yeah you know in my old CD I had never included yes but so I think it's helpful well and you know the re somebody could say well why do you need all that detail yeah well to be honest to be perfectly Frank it's because and I hate to say this sometimes people will make things up they'll put some meeting in their CV and you come to find out that there was no such thing and that doesn't happen frequently at all but it does happen I mean I review a lot of CVS believe me it happens and so it's important for the Integrity of your CV just to make sure you have as much detail in there as possible when I see entries that don't have all the detail it's a little bit of a red flag now I have to admit I read so many CVS for so many different purposes that I probably am a little bit hyper Vigilant about that but nevertheless it's important to get those things in there now this thing at the bottom is important and again we're still trying to make sure that this is the case the the old system that we used to call use called digital measures if you've been around for a while you remember that one then they made a stop using that one and switched over to the University's element system which was a nightmare and you had to get you were caught up right in the middle of that because you were trying to get promoted while we're making the switch oh goodness crisis digital measure it was not good about this at all elements is really good so if Sherry and I both are a co-author on a paper and she enters it in there and I haven't entered it yet in theory when I print out my CV it should be in my CV as well I don't have to do it twice digital measures was really bad about that if people put it in there more than once they just couldn't figure out how to get it out and so it would come out your CV has duplicate entries and and if you had if you were on an article with five people and they all happened to put it in there then you'd have to you'd have to you'd find it in your CV five different times they never could get their arms around that elements has been a lot better about this and we put this in here in good faith but I will tell you about two weeks ago in preparation for my own annual evaluation I downloaded my CV and sure enough there were four or five duplicates in there so I called up the elements person and said what's going on with this you know so they're trying to figure out so but it is a lot better than digital measures but still when you when you prepare your CV for something that's fairly high stakes you'll want to go sure be sure you go through it and make sure there aren't any duplicate entries because that looks bad the same thing is in there twice okay here's some other sample CV entries again these are all in that guide that we mentioned same thing with the funded contract or funded Grant the major parts there are of course the funding organization the names of the people involved make sure you include your name by the way I've seen a lot of CVS where somebody would have a grant in there in their CV but their name wouldn't be listed I'm like how do I know that's your Grant if your name is not and it's usually an oversight but you want to make sure your name the name of the funding organization when it was awarded the time period at the grant like it's a five-year Grant you know July 1st 2020 through June 30th 2025 or whatever it is show the whole Grant period and then the amount and then your how much effort you're putting on to it now the exception to that is clinical trials if you've been involved in clinical trials you know those work a little differently you don't really have a percentage of effort because it usually works based on how many uh subjects you recruit to the trial so you really can't put a percent of effort on that but again these are these are informational things that are really important they're in that CV guide if you need to refer to them so let's talk a little bit about publication metrics anybody know what we mean by that some of these terms you may have seen like this one probably is pretty well known to people you know what a journal impact factor is most people will know what that is it's it's it's a number that's assigned uh every once a year to a journal and it's based on the frequency in which the average article in that journal is cited in a given year by somebody else and so we were talking about this last time and we're us educational types we have our journals you know in clinical medicine your discipline you have your own journals you know you may or may not know what the the impact factor is for a given journal in your field does it matter well it does in one sense in that if you publish in a journal with a higher impact factor that supposedly is more prestigious because it's more difficult to get an article accepted by a journal with a higher impact factor so the higher the impact factor supposedly the harder it is to get your article accepted um so I'm seeing a lot of CVS now particularly with with younger folks who are coming out there training and they're they're actually including the general impact factor with each one of their citations I mean do you want to do that you can if you want I mean I don't know that it's that big of a deal at this point but it may get to be more important in the future so that's probably the one people know about the most these other ones maybe not so much citation count well that's just simply the number of times your article's been cited by anybody now what's the problem with that well it includes the times that you've cited your own work and there there are people that do that a lot and there's nothing wrong with that I mean if you're writing the way academics is you're supposed to find your Niche and you're the World's expert on that and so you might have written a bunch of papers about related topics and and that's okay but it just understand it it does inflate the citation account a little bit because you know you're deciding your own work so that's one of the criticisms of that anybody heard of H index or I-10 index you know what that is these are relatively new so the H index is simply the number of Publications for which a given author has been cited by other authors at least that same number of times now that's clear as mud isn't it so for example an H index of 17 means that that a person has published 17 papers that have each one of those papers has been cited by somebody else at least 17 times help people figure that out I don't know it's got to be automated in some way I-10 index is the number of Publications with at least 10 citations so we're starting to see these sort of metrics pop up more and more we have some World experts on this at the VT Library we're going to get them to come and give a presentation they gave a presentation a month or so ago about Open Access publishing which was really good we'll get them to come back and do Part B on bibliometrics is the term they like to use and they know they tell you all about this stuff I mean it's very complicated but they keep up with and they know exactly what's going on but we're seeing this pop up more and more the problem with some of these metrics is that they're different competing entities that kind of control them so web of Science and scopus and Google Scholar and mendeley are the ones who are out there in the marketplace these are all private companies and they're out there developing these metrics and trying to get everybody to use them for their own particular purpose and they're also frequently uh aligned with particular Publishers of journals so if the Springer journals which is one of the largest publishing groups in the world they have all kinds of journals they may align with scopus and that means that scopists are going to do their best to make sure that those journals are the ones that they use when they're looking for this information they may not pay up a lot of attention to some other set of journals and so forth so it's all private it's all sort of competitive and this is an early field and it's going to develop over time but we'll see where it goes but popping up a lot how about Orkin ID everybody know what that is it's not a flower I like orchids so this is a unique identifier that is used to distinguish you from any and all other researchers especially those who have your same name now with somebody like me that's not much of a problem there's not too many David musics in the world although there has been a fairly productive sociologists at University of Utah who has my name and so I'm I'm tempted to go out and steal some of his Publications we probably wouldn't like that it's no big deal if if uh like elements now has this feature where it will go out and crawl the web every 24 hours and try to find Publications that has your name on it that's not a problem if you have a name like mine if you have a name like Bruce Johnson that's a big problem because it's going to bring in all the Publications it fines out there with the name Bruce Johnson and then Paul Bruce has to sit down and click off the ones that are his versus the ones that aren't his so it's not perfect but it is a way that you can make sure that when that web function goes out to find your your work if you have this organ ID number then it will use that number and make sure that it pulls in only those Publications with your name and your orchid ID number does that make sense so if you haven't set one of those up it's free just go online there at that link and by the way we'll send you these slides so that you'll have the links and set one up we've been encouraging our faculty to do it we have a little over 800 faculty and I think last time we checked we had had about 250 or so that had set up their organized so we got some work to do in that regard but takes a few minutes but it's well worth it because it'll help help distinguish your work from others so this is an example of a Google Scholar profile I use mine pictures getting pretty old you may have a Google does anybody here know anybody have a do you have a Google Scholar profile have you ever looked at one you have one I don't know you may have one to not know it that's the probably do that's a cool thing we first started talking about this in several of us around the office for like we were like do I have one of these so you just go to Google and go to Google Scholar and type in your name and if you have one it'll pull it up you can try right now if you want now if you don't have one it's easy to sell one of them I think my profile it does yeah you have one what's your h10 index let's compare not good it's right behind you wait wait my age your next is seven mine's fifteen it does not competitive at all yeah of course I have a few years on you Mariah so you know you're you're doing great I mean yeah what does that number mean well to give you some context for it and I'm not saying this to I'm just giving you some context I have 73 peer-reviewed Journal articles and only 15 of them have been cited by at least 15 other people that's a little bit deflating and I wish that was higher you know why aren't people paying more attention to my work I don't understand it a bunch of times yeah really yeah so this is out there you the nice thing about this you can sort it like I don't have the show but you can sort it by the year of publication or you can sort it by um how many times it's been cited which is kind of nice you can sort off your articles and it'll show you the the one that's been cited the most and then the next most all the way down so it's kind of cool get in there and play with see if you have one I'm starting to see this even pop up in people's CVS so I have a whole page and they'll see the user towards the back they'll say here's my Google Scholar profile it's kind of you know it's kind of nice so just play with that it's a fun thing you can you can declare your you know your areas of interest in that's helpful okay so still talking about metrics say a word about alt metrics what do you suppose that is well it's an old alternative to traditional metrics so if the other metrics we've been talking about like impact factor and citation count and all that if that's traditional metrics these are meant to complement those metrics this has to do with alternative ways where your work has been viewed or cited by somebody can somebody think of one of these okay many times it was downloaded okay very good I cheated can anybody else think of them okay tweets social media mentions I told the story last time I have a friend who right in the middle of the covet pandemic did some pretty novel work and an application of a some type of high-powered statistical technique to apply to the analysis of covet incident rates and frequency rates and all that and it was hard work and they got it published pretty quickly because it was very well done published in a pretty prestigious statistic Journal of Statistics so I was talking about this one day and he said yeah he said I looked up my my metrics and that in the first six months I think that article had been cited like 25 times which is pretty good and he said somebody told him you should check on some of these other sites so he got to looking on YouTube and anyway I don't know how he did it but he found on YouTube that somebody had put together a presentation that featured that article and it had been viewed by like 250 000 people or 250 000 times however they were and he was blown away he was like I would have never known that if my person my friend hadn't suggested I checked that so you you could put that in your CV I mean you could say yeah this article was cited 25 times but it also gotten 250 000 likes on YouTube or whatever it's an alternate way to get your work out there and as we know there are more and more and more avenues for getting your work out there so these are the ways that you can kind of track that so this is again very new stuff when we have the library people come we're going to ask them to talk a little bit about this too we may have to have them come twice there's just so much to talk about but this is important and um how many times it's mentioned on the news how many times it was shared on the social media you can even sometimes figure out how many people from how many countries have viewed your research which is impressive because if you're supposed to like when you go up for promotion if you're supposed to demonstrate that you have an international reputation then if you have some metrics that says this article was viewed by people in 21 countries that kind of says you have an international reputation among other things okay so let's then get into some tips as we wind up here we've already mentioned some of these but I think the main thing with this is just make sure your CV is readable sort of friendly to the person's eyes who are reading it so I've seen some CVS that you know they'll use a different font for every section or they'll have some items bolded and the very same thing will not be bold and it's very distracting or they have they have little designs on one page and there'll be a different design on the next okay I mean I get it these people sometimes are very creative and they they have a lot of that right brain creative stuff that I don't have but still sometimes if you're not careful you overdo that it gets a little distracting so just you want to make sure you're consistent about spacing and fonts and page numbers a lot of times I'll get a CV and it'll be 35 40 pages long but there's no page numbers on it that's a little bit frustrating because if you want to go back to if you want to tell somebody hey look at this entry on page then they have to shuffle through and find you know they can't tell which page it is or if the wind blows exactly make your category settings headings stand out so they're easier to find elements kind of does that for you and emboldens the major headings of your CV number your Publications and presentations the elements does not do that so when you dump your CV out of elements into a Word document you can simply highlight all of your Publications and then just click the number font up at the top and it'll number them one to whatever that's handy because that way if somebody's reading through your CV they want to know well how many peer-reviewed Publications does this person have they can go to the page and see what the last number is as opposed to having to sit down there and say okay I'm going to count them one two three you know what I mean so I had the numbers that's something you can add but I think that's pretty user friendly make sure and distinguish between abstracts and articles that are or are not peer-reviewed this is a common mistake that people make in their CV deal you'll have something listed as a peer-reviewed publication but it's not a publication it's an abstract and it might not have even been peer-reviewed now elements again will spit that out in different sections I believe did it work when you yeah so your abstracts will be in one place your posters will be in another place but even with abstracts some abstracts are peer-reviewed some aren't so you just have to make sure that you distinguish between those another thing I see a lot is a lot of jargon or abbreviations I see this I review a lot of the residents CVS particularly senior residents because they're getting ready to go out and get on the job market I'm happy to do it I enjoy doing it but they use a lot of them they tend to use a lot of carillion abbreviations in their CV and I'm like okay you know what that means and I might even know what it means but somebody in another health system or somebody out they're not going to have any idea what those things I mean so spell them out don't leave it up to the person to figure out one of the most common mistakes in CVS well we talked about personal information especially the license numbers we're now being told now this is very common in the past when you if you're a physician and you have a medical license they're now saying don't put your license number just put yes I'm licensed in the state of Virginia you could even put a time frame you know like if it's three year I don't know how long it is it every two years or through you you can put the beginning and end date but don't put the actual license number because apparently people are out there grabbing those for whatever purpose so you know they're now telling us to advise people to leave those off incomplete citation information difficult entries we talked about presentations and incorrect categories it's really easy to get a presentation in the wrong category so if you gave a local presentation just make sure it's in the local category if you gave a national one don't put it in the international one and the mobile controversy over what controversy what counts as an international presentation some people say an international presentation is not International unless it takes place in another country that ain't true it's really focused on who the audience is so for example a lot of these folks I used to go there's a an annual educational conference on vt's Main Campus in Blacksburg and it is truly an International Conference I think there's usually people there from 20 25 countries what's right down the road in Blacksburg so I know I've seen some entries in CVS and some people on the Committees have looked at it and said how's that an International Conference it's just down in Blacksburg well because it's an international audience so that's really the primary determining Factor so and then General proofreading which is kind of obvious always put this in here you know we talk a lot about the element system and how it does spin out a CV but it's not going to produce a perfect CV there is no database in the world that will produce a perfect CV it will generally spit it out in word format and then you have to take the time to read through it make sure there's not any duplicates make sure that everything's correct you can't Turf that off to the database it just doesn't work so anyway I think that's all we have in terms of so any any questions about any of that any general questions that would help everybody I mean we're happy to come and answer individual questions but authorship perspective can you talk a little bit about um and trying to turn research now into manuscripts um can you talk about when does that expectations of authorship I think in the past a couple of months I've heard many different versions of where you know if you're doing a student project where you should be ownership wise if you're doing you know you're on the academic side sometimes the placement of importance is different yeah yeah I don't know if there's any real hard and fast rule in general I'm from the old school the first author is whoever writes the first draft now feel free to disagree with me um but that's I think that's a pretty common way of of saying the first author is going to be the person who writes the first draft and kind of oversees everything the last author generally somebody that in like in the basic Sciences world the last author is whoever's lab the project is part of so that's more relevant to basic science or in some cases the last author might be considered somebody more senior you answered that earlier I think you kind of looked at me when you said senior senior I did not no but what I think of is usually the first author is a person who's really taken the charge not only you know started the outline but but really seeing it along the way and doing most of the work like if if you need to know where we are in the process you go the first author the uh the second author is sort of like the person who does the next most amount of work I always use a last author is the senior author so overseeing it question may have the most expertise in the field um in the middle people if there are middle people just sort of um fall in the middle wherever sometimes we I have I wrote something a while ago I don't know it was probably I don't think it was published but we did a workshop for it on authorship order there is ije CHP internet the criteria you have to meet in order to be considered as an authority right so we'll find it but but it is there it's out there and it's very it's everyone it's icga yeah every Journal is a little bit different so a lot of them will follow this um yeah protocol that we're talking about and I can't remember what it is either but it's sort of a widely accepted and adopted amongst most journals about here's what we mean when you say I I've done enough on this project or on this paper to be considered an author that's why a lot of times at the end of a paper you'll see an acknowledgment section and you'll see people listed there and the reason they're listed there is because they didn't meet the criteria for having done enough or participated enough to be considered an author and they'll say like funders if they're funding the project that does not Grant you authorship if if you had you have to have an idea contribute to the all right um so it's the international Committee of medical journal editors so i c n j e I see MJ I had a couple of them and they have like a list of criteria that you should need or to be considered as an out there another conversations that I've heard happen around authorship people will ask like hey are you need a promotion like do you want to take the lead like would you like to be the first author if yeah then yeah typically yeah that's another important factor is is where where are people in their career so if you're if you're on a group of four or five faculty and you're all early in your career and you all need first author Publications then you're gonna have to work something out but a lot of times if you're working with a more senior person they're going to say well look you're early in your career it's going to benefit you more I don't really need to be first you'd be first you know that sort of thing in terms of when to have the conversation the earlier the better oh for sure I mean there are lots of horror stories I could tell you I'm a an editorial ombuds person for a journal and about two or three times a year I get asked to referee disputes that prop that crop up about either research design or research ethics or authorship and eighty percent of the time when I'm called in it has something to do with authorship people are fighting over who should be the first author or who did this or who did that and it's a mess so I just always say have that conversation early on before you even write anything just have a good understanding of who's going to be the first author who's going to be last or is everybody going to show we're going to also mention this you'll see this see that asterisk there you'll see this a lot in CVS to identify students so the first author on this paper I'm sorry this presentation but it also became a paper it did um was one of our medical students that and we she was the first author so we listed her and we put a star there to designate that so you'll see sometimes CVS with the star you might see some other like you know the everybody's different how they do it but you can always identify the student in some way like that if you want to also for authorship sometimes you know you'll have a big project and they'll be offshoot papers or presentations and you may rotate who's doing like oh you take the lead on this poster I'll take the lead on this paper presentation or whatever you know there's a progression um so that that's always helpful when you're with a good group that you're used to working with or something great question yeah and um when you're handing your CVN for different positions or when you're going up for committees and you print it out from elements and and I know you said moving it into um a word document it's helpful it's a kind of converter things a little bit do you remove like some of the they get which is great it it lists all of the teach courses that yeah anymore okay that's yeah that's a new one okay and then um like the one I because I don't I generated one today it is um all of the courses that you've ever taught right right consolidate that you know in your portfolio you can consolidate that almost into like a like a table or something not a table you can I'm trying to remember if we have something in our guidelines about this but I know what I do I usually just do the last three years especially if you've done a lot of you know if you do like five or six things every year then it'll quickly add up and then create a lot of pages and once you don't want people to do is kind of look at your CD and think they're fluffing it up with all this stuff but you know it's it repeats itself the same the other thing that that I strongly recommend is if you do the same thing like I teach in our small group uh ethics course for medical students every year and it will it will spin it in there for every year well what I'll do is I'll make one entry under teaching that says I'm a preceptor of this course give the course name and I'll put the starting year to present and then you don't need all the other because you don't want to repeat the same thing over and over and over that just annoys people and it makes people think you're trying to you know to build up your CV unnecessarily so does that help I mean it's kind of up to you there's no real rule of thumb about it it does I think a lot of them lately feel like they have a little bit of a page requirement where it says like in 10 pages which to me then looks almost like a resume right right and mine is terrible yeah yeah there's a balance there you know you want to make sure that you're giving a good picture of everything you've done without sort of overdoing it so where's The Sweet Spot you know it's it can be sometimes it depends on the purpose who who your audience is you know are you trying to show everything or a variety of things even if you're if you're trying to throw a variety of things and you have a limitation you might even if they're within the past three years you may just you know pick and choose just to show I got diverse interests I think now you're um the teach activities that you go to though that still gets uploaded into the system it gets uploaded into the system yes absolutely but um digital measure or sorry elements you've recently worked with them to get that so it doesn't automatically print out with the CV all your CMA activities because that's it became like yeah there were people who when the template was first designed they would have a 50-page CV and 35 Pages it would be a list of all their CME sessions they've ever gone to and so we said no that's not really we don't want that um so now it's it's gone the other direction yeah and that you know professional development is a good thing to show that you've done but I mean it's again it depends on the purpose but if you like a promotion dossier it's not a major factor in what you're going to get promoted on how many hours of professional development or CME you've done um more of a comment but um and I think there's been a lot of changes since I've promoted kind of setting yourself up for success but um just like for what I found I learned so much going up for promotion and things that I wish I knew when I first started in academic medicine I like what I had during orientation when I first came here as far as the buckets and um I have one of the things that's been really helpful for me because I think you lose all the stuff that you do and every time you get a great crazy email especially with our emails but disappear after 90 days but I have like two things that have helped me tremendously since I promoted but I have just a word document that I have in several places that all kind of Link together and I just have the um the four buckets and then the categories and every time I do something yeah I just type it in our document so that way I can remember to upgrade it that's really it's really smart yeah I have all of the buckets as like a desktop folder but now I just like quickly dump in there because you just I can't yeah but it also helps with um when if you do it and then you go to look in your elements it also helps you see where maybe you need to beef something up or try yeah yeah yeah that's really good advice yeah I I still do for years I kept a kind of a CV folder on my desk and anytime that I did something or got something or I thought that remotely this might possibly need to be putting my CV I'll just throw it in that boat yeah in that folder and then when I was getting ready to update my CV had pulled out the folder and go through oh yeah I need to put that in I don't know what I'm saying about that that doesn't need to be in there that didn't get accepted throw that away you know but like if I submit an abstract to a meeting I'll just throw it in there and then later I'll know it either got in or it didn't if it got in okay I'll go ahead and put in my CV if it didn't you just throw it away it's a painful way to do it but that's you know everybody has to have their own method of keeping up with their stuff and uh I know it's tough especially for busy clinicians and that's why I think it's really important like Sherry said to get to know that element person in your elements person in your department and uh if you have some administrative support and most departments have more than one um and so they they are pretty facile in how to use this system and they'll help you with it but they don't have any way to know what you've done no unless you tell them I know a lot of docs will come in and say I just got this accepted and I'll hand it to the person and they'll log in and put it into elements form that's fine I mean you guys are busy you have to list them as your administrative person who can add that right yeah but if we know who it is then we'll give them access it's been interesting because most of your the Korean administrative folks work for Carilion elements is a Virginia Tech product so with all the security and all that we had to get special permission from the University to add non-university employed people into this database so they can have access to it but they they finally came around to our point of view and let's put that way okay well we are at the top of the hour we're happy to stick around and after the individual questions or work with you in any way we can but thank you for being here I've just been home and if you have to go when you want to contact us separately there I'm sure we're happy to answer questions happy to follow up individually anytime you need us.