Educational Leadership Skills

Hello everybody joining us great so good to see you all little by little as I scroll I have to scroll to see you on all right I'm going to go ahead and get started so good afternoon and welcome to today's health profession educator series session on education leadership skills so we've invited three exemplary educational leaders from within our own organization to share with you their experiences and guidance and what they've learned throughout their various roles uh so as I often hear uh our own Dr olendorf say in medical education within an organization we have one learning environment if you look around however you're going to see a myriad of leadership opportunities within the learning environment so all contributing to the greater good of our Learners our team members and ultimately our patients so today's presenters will help Enlighten us on at least three leadership roles so Dr Amanda Murchison is program director for the OB GYN Residency program at carillion clinic and associate professor for OB GYN um through Virginia Tech curling School of Medicine uh Dr Aubry Knight is senior dean of student affairs at vtcsom and professor of internal medicine and family and Community medicine and also geriatrician at curling Clinic Center for healthy aging and Dr Alan Blackwood is clerkship director for internal medicine and at vtcsom and associate professor for internal medicine and pediatrics at ptcsom so this is intended to really be an interactive session initially it was supposed to be a hybrid session um so so so we want to maintain even though we've pivoted we want to maintain that level of interaction as much as possible um there should be plenty of time for questions and discussion at the end of the presentation uh but if you have questions or comments throughout please feel free to type them in the chat or just unmute yourselves throughout if you feel the need so uh let us know we want to hear from you too um so without further Ado I'm going to turn it over to taste speakers take away folks thanks Sherry and Mariah we can go to the next slide so um thank you everyone for your attention and for being here I am honored to be on a panel with um my colleagues Dr Murchison in Blackwood um and I'm looking forward to kind of learning myself um uh just because this is a a session on on educational leadership we must start with learning objectives um and so our objectives um for this session will be to kind of list some qualities of what what makes a good educational leader um talk about some different Pathways toward that those roles um ways that you can get involved and then we'll talk a little bit about using a coaching approach to individual especially uh uh opportunities for educating our our various Learners um we can go to the next slide and we're gonna we're gonna start out so as as Sherry mentioned we um had intended on this being more of a live presentation and we're going to make it very much of a panel presentation such that it such that um it was going to be q a from the from the beginning and and uh uh audience participation from their game so we're going to do audience participation from the beginning what I would like you all to think about is send us in chat or yell out probably probably send us in chat um what you consider to be qualities or characteristics of educational leaders foreign thoughts about that active listening yeah now we're seeing it humility transparency willing to learn giving of their time willing to learn uh present and available um communication active listening great stuff I mean this is this is so I'm I love the direction you're going here and and it's not you know I don't see a lot of things but non-judgmental Connection open to input um these are these are all um uh communication Styles and and and and and and not you know um being able to check boxes and and and and those kinds of things I I love this and because you know availability um collaboration active listening um humility all those things non-judgmental I I this this is great we you know it would be it would be awesome if we if we could take all of your suggestions and make one of those uh uh slides that that show all the all of what you've said but but I think we are off to a great start um because these are um these are the kinds of things that I think we would that the panelists would agree are the the starting points for um uh qualities of an educational leader um we're going to go on to the next slide and and spend a few minutes just sharing a little bit about our Journeys um into educational leadership and and I'm going to get started and and turn it over to Dr Blackwood after that um I never considered so early in my medical school residency and and practice um uh I I never really considered myself to be an educator and certainly did not consider myself to be a leader um uh and um but it was through um just my willingness to to um kind of listen to what was going on around me um take feedback from others and figure out the things that really gave me um that really filled my tank um and made me um uh I want to do all the other things that I was doing and and as I did that it became pretty clear to me that it was it was um some of the especially the educational things not so much leadership at that point um so I ended up leaving my private family medicine practice to do a faculty development in geriatrics Fellowship um and it was through the the fellowship and the the the training that I got in the fellowship um that I that I began to hone that I began to understand what what some of the qualities were and and and to uh sought ways that I could I could enhance those qualities um I came back to Roanoke um and and the rest of it has just kind of been a journey through a bunch of different different positions from from Family Medicine faculty member to Family Medicine Residency director to um uh geriatric Fellowship director to palliative medicine Fellowship director and then ultimately over to the medical school where I've moved from more graduate medical education to undergraduate medical education um I have um I have wonderful memories at each step along the way and and and um uh I tell people this all the time I I you know all of them were steps um I don't believe I I would have been prepared for for what I'm doing these days straight out of residency or even straight out of my fellowship because everything else kind of built on the skills the the um the the experiences that I had in those in those other roles and we'll talk a little bit about some of the specifics in a few minutes so I'm going to turn it over to Dr Blackwood and let him share a little bit of his journey in educational leadership thanks Aubry you certainly are an example to all of us that have been a mentor of mine over the years as well so Amanda thank you for finding these pictures uh unfortunately I think we've aged a little bit except for you Aubry you've not aged at all you're still 29 so you still have 29 but uh I don't think my Pathway to clerkship director was all that deliberate so uh you know we've had students and Roanoke for decades and so before vcom and VTC uh the University of Virginia students came to Roto uh and so that started many decades ago and and uh so uh at any one point we had 30 to 40 percent of the the third year class of the University of Virginia rotating in Roanoke and Salem so we were a big site for their clinical education across all the clerkships and and so uh Dr Buck Crockett kind of started that many years ago and and as he was retiring he passed that off to Dr Bill Irwin uh and I think uh Dr Irwin at that time was also The Residency director of the of our transitional year that we had a transitional internship uh and so uh I think as he was starting to cut back a little bit as well we were walking down the hall I was walking down the hall with Dr Irwin one day and he said Alan you're going to take over the students uh and so that's how I got that role and so uh he called up Dr Michael I see Charlie sloopner on the line so at that time Mike Ryan infectious disease was the the clerkship director in Charlottesville and so uh bill called up Dr Ryan and said Mike come to Road up you're gonna have dinner with a new guy and so we he took us all out to dinner uh and that's how I got uh to be clerkship director starting there so that was great that was uh we were a psyched and so all the lcme stuff had you know happened in Charlottesville so I wasn't really responsible for that but I got to learn about that kind of early on and so we would go to Charlottesville once or twice a year uh for a full day meeting with all the clerkship directors and kind of know learn about the lcme requirements and learn about the different uh The deans of the school and so that was a great learning experience for me uh great to kind of learn from from from the UVA folks and then vcom comes on board and of course we start taking their students on as well and then of course VTC comes on board and I'm not sure really how I became the director of VTC I think Dr Herring had just started sending me emails and things to do and uh telling me to go to this meeting in that meeting and so I think that's kind of how I uh wound up doing that uh but uh but it's been a great uh great experience and uh it certainly has helped me grow a lot Amanda how about your you've had a very deliberate uh process and a very deliberate route and you've had a lot of mentoring along the way so tell us your journey yeah so I think for me um kind of like Aubry I actually started in private practice for the first three years out of residency and so I think during that private practice I realized that I missed being around students in Residence because I had always been in Fairly large academic stuff so when I came to Roanoke um I had the opportunity fairly early on to become the clerkship director just like Alan said at the time we had UVA students so it was a really good opportunity to kind of get my feet wet without having our own um our own students um and so uh from there the medical school started here so it was able to be involved with sort of starting the clerkships here at the time we were a much smaller OB-GYN department so I actually um started a couple years after the clerkship director with sort of a another leadership opportunity of being the assistant Residency program director at the same time and then um about seven years ago transitioned out of the clerkship and Into The Residency program I think one of the things that I wanted to highlight on my journey was I had the opportunity to do um a national leadership um sort of group and so through OB GYN one of the opportunities there's something called the APCO Scholars and leaders program and it's an 18-month program um where you are kind of in a peer group with other people that are sort of late later part of their early career to kind of early part of their mid-career um where you meet multiple times a year and you you end up with this peer group that kind of you grow together and still today we um have a chat group that you know people can pose questions and I think it also gives you a little bit of peer pressure you know when you see these people sort of advancing in their career and now many of them are Vice chairs or chairs or have moved into the Dean's office it kind of you know it makes you sort of reevaluate your own career goals and kind of um challenges yourself as well so um you know I do think a lot of those opportunities exist we even have some leadership opportunities um for uh faculty development um at carillion besides teach which you can do um obviously these sessions but we have some actual um sort of continuing leadership sessions so I think those can be really important in someone's career I think next slide so um educational leadership is actually a topic that's not really widely published about and so you know when I went to start putting kind of my part of this talk together there really wasn't a lot of information out there but I thought that this study was really interesting um you know as a side note this the literature that's out there is for the most part not specifically healthcare related most of these are about University type systems which oftentimes include the medical school or maybe a vet school but these are also talking about professors who may be teaching you know chemistry um and so they're kind of all lumped into right but this study that was done in Canada took a a group of kind of that same late early career to mid-career and identified them as people that they wanted to help develop into leadership roles and so through their leadership group which is actually a fairly short process of three months um the the students of that group sort of came up with with these qualities that they felt um really reflected a leader and so I think this shows a lot of the things that you guys said at the very beginning of the talk so having those sort of effective qualities of humility and showing empathy establishing trust um they have to be action oriented so they have to be able to affect change you have to be able to take some risks you have to be able to look at what's that long-term transformation that you're trying to achieve um they have to be able to mentor and Empower um the the people they're trying to lead so whether that's students or residents or faculty um and then have some teaching Excellence obviously you know we're in teaching roles so um empowering the learner helping um the learner to achieve their goals and then there's research and other forms of academic scholarship and I thought it was interesting because these last two teaching and research and scholarship that's oftentimes where we as as um faculty really get our academic credibility and it doesn't mean that the other three categories are important but oftentimes when it comes to promotion you know going from assistant professor to associate professor the teaching excellence and then your research is really what's going to give you that academic credibility so next slide um there was um some information that's been published specifically on leaders in healthcare education and I thought what was kind of interesting about this is that it recognized that as leaders in healthcare we actually kind of have to have skills in two buckets we have to actually be managers as well as kind of have some of those leadership skills that would be more reflected in that last slide so for management we have to provide order to whatever group we're managing so a lot of times for many of us I know for Alan and I a lot of that scheduling I mean the amount of sort of time and effort I put into sort of the daily schedules is um it it's a lot a lot of moving people um consistency is really important and you know there usually comes some sort of budget responsibility so that may be fairly small but for some like for Dr vid who runs an Internal Medicine Residency program with 80 residents that can be pretty large um and then we have that other bucket which is maybe a little bit more of what we think about with leadership which is you know creating that shared Vision making sure that you're always kind of moving in the direction that you need to move in um and then influencing and connecting people next slide so we're going to each kind of talk about our uh some of the leadership categories so Dr Blackwood yes so um you know I think we're all familiar with different leadership styles I'm not an expert on leadership styles but I've begun to read a little bit about it and try to you know try to find my style and I would encourage you if you've not kind of read about leadership styles and kind of know what yours is to kind of pick up some books or pick up some literature and kind of delve into that but um so this kind of dovetails into what Amanda was saying about um management and Leadership and so uh kind of one of the articles I was looking at kind of summed it up very nicely I thought I'll just read you a quick sentence here on new type of leaders emerging one who role models to balance between autonomy and accountability which you see on the slide here emphasizes teamwork and focuses on improving patient outcomes and I thought that summed up a very nicely kind of an educational leader and so they also kind of talk about transactional leadership and transformational Leadership and that's what Amanda was was talking about as well so uh you know with the with the transformational leadership it's all about empowering people empowering your team uh setting goals a teamwork clarifying roles and bringing them along that journey and empowering them to take over that journey of the goal and so but not everybody wants to do that not everybody wants to kind of be empowered to make change and uh in the program so for them it's more of a transactional thing you have to let them know you're still a part of the team you're a very valuable part of the team you're accountable these are the things that you have to do and it's more of a transactional relationship that you have with them so I just kind of things to think about and some some kind of bullet points up here that uh to think about that um uh in in transactional versus transformational leadership next slide uh and so you know again you have to have some knowledge related to your position for uh so as far as the clerkship goes I kind of told you earlier that I learned from the the UVA folks uh and then as VTC came online uh I joined a group called clerkship directors and internal medicine that's our National Organization uh and that they are very uh well-connected people they have list serves uh that I'm a part of they have National meetings uh and so uh kind of just early on uh went to those meetings uh they have a lot of uh mentoring uh possibilities they have a lot of Education uh and I've learned I got to learn from some of the the Giants and Internal Medicine clerkships uh through that journey and so uh that's certainly a very valuable resource uh as our school is coming online as we were building it we had to come very familiar with the lcme requirements uh and so I got uh very versed in that and and the the educational requirements that we had to do as a clerkship to meet those requirements so Amanda I think you also have uh things that you want to talk about as program director yeah so um sort of the flip side with the residency program are all of the acgme requirements and so I'm sure many of you here uh program directors talking about Duty hour requirements and you know specific you know we have to do milestones and things like that so um the the APG e puts out a um a document called the common program requirements and the link is here but you can also just Google common program requirements acgme and it will pop up for you it can change every year it doesn't always have significant changes but it goes into the new one goes into effect July to the beginning of the Academic Year and um it's very helpful so if you have any questions about why there are certain requirements um those are are explained in the common program requirements each specialty also has specialty specific requirements but they really don't um they don't differ that much from the common program requirements so I think if you have an understanding of a common program requirements the specialty specific requirements are are usually just kind of fine-tuning notes next slide so the acgme also has or is recently um embarking on a milestone project for Clinic clinician educator so as as if you if you're involved in residency education you know that for the last I don't know 10 or 15 years the acgm is acgme has been moving um toward um uh milestones for graduate medical education um the the first the first set of those um have been replaced in maybe all Specialties at this point by their by the next iteration which is much more specific and Specialty related but in addition to the individual residencies they've created or are creating an a clinician educator Milestone um and the reason I say our creating is because this is still in draft form they have not finalized this yet but even though this is specific to um graduate medical education I think the Milestones are are Encompass the the entire gamut of undergraduate graduate and continuing medical education the the kinds of things that are that are highlighted from um foundational reflective practice and commitment to personal growth in your own well-being um to barrier and bias mitigation through um teaching professionalism and learner assessment related to educational theory and practice the the the uh the uh the the Milestones are essentially five different um uh categories foundational educational theory and practice which is the next three the three um uh boxes on the right hand side and then well-being of self learner and colleagues diversity Equity inclusion and then administrative skills um um putting administrative skills last I think is is kind of interesting and probably telling um as I mentioned when we did that that first set of questions what makes a what what makes an Effective Teacher I think we all migrated toward those foundational um uh practical things and not so much the administrative stuff but the administrative skills are still there and Stillness necessary and and and we still have to check boxes dot eyes and cross T's um but um I I encourage you to um I think on our Resource page we have the link to this I encourage you to go there there's a lot of of really rich information and guidance in this Milestone project and once they create the final one I think there will be even more reason there will be even more resources available um to uh to guide us and for us to use as we're trying to grow our own educational on a portfolio next slide Mariah so we're going to move now from the philosophical to the more practical as pertains to um to being a faculty member here um and how can you get involved if you're if you're not um involved at this point and we'll start with um what are ways that that if you're if you're not currently involved in the medical school that you might be able to to be involved and um I've I've identified six here there are more than six but there certainly are these are these six um that we're always looking for Willing um clinicians to pump to and and faculty members who are on basic science to to be involved in lace is the longitudinal ambulatory clinical experience um and and the first the students from the first two years are taught clinical medicine from the very beginning not only in the classroom and in the Oscar Suite here but also in your offices through the lace program so Dr Schmidt Dalton um uh leads that and if you're interested and would would like to learn more about it I encourage you to to contact her or me and I can I can direct you there um for um for that program we're always looking for for a willing uh lace preceptors um there are lectures and works shops both in the clinical area but also in the in the basic science area as you know we're a problem-based patient-centered curriculum here and and so so we are we are incorporating our four value domains into the entire curriculum of the first two years so so um uh we we rely on our clinical faculty to assist with these um our problem-based learning um case-based um uh teaching is done through by facilitators and we have clinician facilitators um who assist in in those areas there are committees um I've listed four here uh there may be others um but certainly the admissions committee is always looking for for Willing faculty members the medical school curriculum committee the medical student performance and promotions committee and the learning environment advocacy committee all need people who are passionate about education and about um uh innovation in education to be a part of those committees um we look for student advisors and student mentors primarily specialty specific but but also in other areas that providing advice and guidance that can be formal or informal um students are going to I I hear this all the time from students that they tell me about a conversation they had with one of you and and how rich that was how important that was and how informative it was to decision making that they're that they're um that they're having to to decide especially as it pertains to a specialty um determinations and then finally um the the vtco meant VTC Som mentoring communities which used to be called ptlcs or um uh uh physician thought leader communities um are those formal um uh uh groups that are made up of A Faculty Mentor or faculty mentors residents and students to to kind of help us help them and us through the um the challenges that are faced in medicine in graduate medical education and in undergraduate medical education so there are numerous ways that you can get involved and and we encourage you if you're not already to to to just to help allow us to help you find that place that that fits you next slide yes so ways to get involved on the clerkship level for I'm speaking for all the clerkships we all have a didactic series we give lectures we have a physical diagnosis rounds and various things so certainly if you've got a uh a presentation or something that you would like to do or in an interactive kind of session that you would like to do with the students at in any specialty uh your clerkship director would would be would love to have you involved uh with that uh and so likewise I think if you're being a preceptor and having students come to your clinic uh or are making an elective for students uh is another way to to kind of get exposure to students and again all the perkships uh on all the Departments would be would welcome them Amanda how can you get involved with the residency yeah so next slide after there's lots of ways to get involved with the residency um I think you know a good place to start would just feed and meet with the program director and see sort of where the areas of need are um unfortunately as a program director we don't necessarily have the power to give you protected time um to do some of these things but if you feel like you could accommodate um you know putting something into your schedule then the program directors I would imagine would be very hope would be very happy to have you help some of the things that I do with faculty in my own program is in that last box so I have a faculty member who basically is in charge of Journal Club so he you know picks the Articles he organizes that um and that's a huge help I have somebody who is in charge of mock oral exams so our residents do a mock oral exam at the end of their year so into spring every year and and this requires organization we have structured cases and this person really um keeps this updated and facilitates that I have somebody else who is in charge of the GYN portion of our simulation curriculum I didn't put it on the slide but I have somebody else who is in charge of our resident research curriculum that person does actually have a little bit of protected time so um sometimes the program director can work with the chair in those really big jobs to try to see if we can um can carve out a little bit of time for you for you um the program director actually appoints um members to two big committees those are the clinical competency committee and the program evaluation committee so every Residency program is going to have both of these committees they're they're each a little bit different so the clinical competency committee really their job is to kind of do a deep dive on residents at least twice a year some of the larger programs meet more often but to really kind of uh keep keep abreast of where that Resident stands in the Milestones um it's this committee that makes recommendations to the program director regarding promotion remediation or even probation and so this committee is is really really important um the program evaluation committee is a little bit different they are um really sort of evaluating the program as far as its curriculum the specific rotations um this this uh committee also has residence on it whereas a clinical competency committee would not have residence on it um and so um they um sort of kind of helped create the vision of where where do we need to go next in The Residency program um in general I would say this isn't a hard and fast rule but oftentimes program directors would would probably prefer that maybe you been here for a couple of years just to really understand sort of the workings of The Residency program before starting out on one of these Committees of course we need mentors for our residents and one of the other things that we really need help with are when residents are struggling whether it's they're struggling uh really in their more in their personal life or if they're struggling with fund of knowledge or surgical skills um administrative type skills um we often develop practicing Improvement plans and these are super time consuming to sort of help these residents and give them individualized attention so if they're faculty members who are willing to kind of sit down with residents and help them through these plans that's really really helpful to the program next slide foreign do you want to talk about this or do you want me to I don't hear Alan so I'm gonna go ahead and talk about this so we spoke a little bit um or I did about some of the leadership opportunities that are available um through your own National organizations but you can also just attend National meetings and gain a lot of knowledge so the acgme has National meetings each specialty has meetings that are specific to their um to their clerkship directors to The Residency program directors sometimes those meetings are combined sometimes they're separate um and and anybody is welcome to attend those meetings um and then we I spoke a little bit about specialty specific leadership programs I did want to highlight the double AMC has a early career and a mid-career leadership program for women um I attended the early career leadership program many years ago and found that to also be very helpful that's so that's something that you could consider and I think they also have a program for minorities but I don't know very much about that program and then of course taking advantage of teach which we have here uh next slide so the last thing just before we kind of open the panel up um this is sort of taking a different direction um but we just we didn't want to end this talk without kind of talking a little bit about the principles of coaching I think we've all found uh the coaching principle really helpful in in our day-to-day job and you know coaching um when you have interactions with with the people you're going to encounter in these roles you know the people we work with they're all bright and they are adult Learners and so if you can approach conversations from more of a coaching um format I think that oftentimes you will really find that that really opens conversation and can um can really kind of um help the person that you're trying to work with so this would just be an example of let's say that I'm meeting as the OB GYN Residency program director with a resident who's struggling um to teach in the operating room perhaps we received a student evaluation that just kind of shed some concern about the learning environment specific to the operating room so in meeting with that Resident you could kind of pose some questions like how do you think um the students might describe your interactions in the operating room and giving them a chance to kind of to talk through that um when teaching in the operating room what do you find most challenging do you have ideas about how you could Foster a more positive learning environment in the operating room what resources do you feel like you need to be successful at teaching in the operating room and I always like to kind of end the conversation with what would be the first step you could take um because I think if they can leave with one two or even three things um in their sort of toolkit I find that they're almost always successful um and this you can kind of fit this into your your coaching session um you you this is maybe phrased a little bit more in the negative side but if you could change one thing what would it be and I think really what we're trying to ask is you know what is what's your quick win is what we're trying to find um because as somebody in a leadership role there might be something small that you could change for them um that would make a big impact and sometimes this question too I think helps to reveal frustrations that they're having which you might be able to intervene on or you might be able to get them help uh somewhere else um to sort of help them with that Aubrey do you have anything else to add in your kind of interactions with the students and you're on mute yeah no um I mean I think I think I I think coaching mentoring and coaching um are sorry about that power um crucial and I think it it it is it does and for me anyway it required me um uh to really hone that skill and to and to and to to know the kinds of questions to ask that are going to provide uh value both for me and um in understanding where a student or a resident is but also in them helping to understand how the feedback I'm giving them is is to be used effectively yeah and you can actually come up with a hundred different like sample questions that you might be able to to use in a meeting that you might be having um next slide I know Alan lost his internet at um access I don't know yet he's back um I think we just wanted to open it up and maybe um Sherry or Mariah could help um help with the chat box but you're welcome to unmute yourself and ask questions to any of our panel members or put it in the chat yes please feel free to unmute type it in whatever I did want to make a few comments at excellent presentation I mean these These are great resources uh folks ask me all the time what do I do to get involved in educational leadership um and I said it depends on which type of educational leadership there are certain things that are uh you know Common across the Continuum and then certain things like the PEC CCT or Uma committees if you want to be called you know depending on which point of the Continuum you want to become involved lots of us have been doing interviews um for chairs recently and I'm always thinking of from my perspective when I'm interviewing a potential chair candidate even I want somebody who has had experience with education just because I'm so involved in education that's my passion so these are important whether you want to become a a get in one of these roles in stock or if you want to keep on going um throughout medical education leadership so or Health Professions education leadership all important points wonderful resources next steps I think also oh one more thing that Deb wanted me to remind all of you if you all just as an aside I have a name that is not discernible within your within your Zoom account if you could just either text her or make your name um discernible in the text that would be great so she can count you as being here um okay so Dr olandarv says can you please expand on the value of getting involved at any level of Education foreign yeah I mean I think you could take this several different ways but I think you know number one there's no you know whether it's at the medical student level from you know uh pre-clinical years through residency fellowship or um getting involved really with faculty um you know who need um who need mentoring as well you know there's no right or wrong path um you know people can um start kind of start in one place and kind of like Alan he's been he's kind of stayed in that courtship role and and um and many people do that versus maybe me where I kind of went from clerkship director to Residency program director and moved around a little bit um but I think um as a leader you can get involved in any one of those spectrums and I think as somebody who's who's looking to get involved in leadership um start to start somewhere that you know it can be really it can be by joining one committee um and then maybe you'll sort of figure out where your passion lies and it is hard I understand in an academic setting I mean you know a leadership opportunities don't always come up um all the time as far as you know specifically named leadership opportunities but I think one of the things I've learned is you don't have to have a title to be an educational leader so um you know you you can you can be a leader regardless if you have that title or not and I'll I'll I agree with that I mean absolutely we're you know we we have we have formal and informal both educational and Leadership roles but but I'd like to expand on on Dr olendorf's question by saying uh and I think the way he posed the question was um the value so there is value to the institution to the medical school and to The Graduate medical education institution by you're becoming involved there's value to the learner um uh because you are giving them you are sharing with them your knowledge and and your skills and and and and uh um mentoring them through a challenging period in their lives but there's also value to us individually um right the the the the um uh being having to be on top of your game for Learners is is it has made me have to stay up to date and and be sure that I'm not only conveying up-to-date information but but doing it in such a way that is that is that they're able to hear so so I've needed to stay um on top of my game because I've got Learners so there's value across all three of those those spectrums honestly participating on a variety of educational leadership committees I'd say your colleagues you're benefiting your colleagues also I learned something every single time I participate in one of those committees just from the complementary strengths of all of the individuals on that that committee it's really a community you get to know your colleagues and you're involved and then that may be just getting started on these committees may be a way of helping you to realize what's your favorite point on that continual mine has definitely shifted throughout my years in medical education but what is one great piece of advice or feedback you have received from a mentor or a learner on your Journeys to your current positions Tyler Wilson great question Tyler yeah I I think for me and and my journey um you know has been kind of a kind of jumping back and forth between um students and residents but um you know kind of learned that piece of advice of there are certain tickets that you kind of want to punch and like certain experiences and I think that kind of leads back to what Aubry said about you know he he learned something from each role and he wouldn't have necessarily been prepared for that role had he not have done a previous role and so I think just um sort of taking full advantage of each opportunity you have and what can you what skills can you gain from that experience that you know you'll be able to take to the next experience so just kind of punching your ticket along the way you know I think I think that that is a great question Tyler um and um as I'm looking through the the list of of uh folks that are here I can't help but but recognize that some of my mentors some of my some of the folks that have been involved in my education there's there's someone on the line right now who was a resident when I was a medical student there are a couple of you who were faculty members when I was a resident um and um it's just the the the fact that I'm I'm giving I'm participating as one of the presenters of this when I'm looking over there and seeing these Giants um that are that are in the audience but um I'll I I digress here um the the thing that the thing that has stuck with me um and and I hope I've lived um has been availability has been as has just been being there um and being there for the Learners or the my patients also but but for the but for the Learners that's that's the one bit of advice that I hope has been one that I've I've uh lived out yes and for me it's um uh culture a culture of yes and so you know there's so many barriers that we put up to uh an education and health care and so uh you know having a culture of positivity and a culture of yes trying to find the solution of some advice that I received early on that's been very beneficial so I think there's a couple more questions here Dr Wilson I also really like your question and it leads me to make a comment on something else so connecting with your mentors and having these conversations with your mentors if you're interested in moving forward they may know of other opportunities that you haven't even heard of or heard about throughout the organization or within your specialty societies Etc um that would great be great opportunities for you to participate in we also are starting a more formal mentoring program um this fall we're starting a pilot um it's called tmap um and uh it's for for more Junior faculty members to connect more formally with some uh with some mentors if you don't already have one um you know mentors come in all shapes and sizes formal informal within your specialty outside your specialty so look for those mentors and ask them for additional Guidance with regards to leadership opportunities Dr olindor says a paperweight given to me by my first Mentor in education at Cincinnati I don't know if you all there's a picture attached it it's making me download it Arthur can anybody else see it it says to teach us to learn twice oh that sits on my desk 30 years later well not quite 30. we'll say 26. I'll feel better great advice oh there it is I'm popped up I love that their questions or comments anything you all have learned uh the participants I I too see so many um of our outstanding leaders uh throughout the participants today so uh at any point in your leadership Journey if you want to share anything that you've learned I have a question for the panelists did any of you all receive any formal leadership training as part of your medical school or residency curricula in other words was leadership something that you were taught formally in the medical school curriculum or in your residency program definitely not in medical school I I was a chief resident so I was provided some opportunity through that to to get some some leadership training but it wasn't embedded per se in my residency of course I did residency 40 years ago so um yeah I would say the same I think being a chief resident um you know the senior year um or for opiates you know it's the last year residency um you know we were had a lot of leadership roles but um you can't really think of of anything formal in medical school the same with me Dr Mishra has his hand up Baba yes sir Dr Knight um I actually like Dr merchants's comment on and of course a mentor because that really demonstrates what the change has been in education because um I know in education when I started out even and it wasn't that long ago it doesn't seem like not four years ago but maybe a little bit longer and um it seems um that it was like okay here's the spigot drink all you can and then you're gonna have to be responsible for it and now we're focused on how effective is this education and I think that's the right strategy but uh it's very telling that what the comments were foreign posted in the chat um our regional sgea the Southern Group on educational Affairs it's a regional organization like a smaller version of the double AMC um so there's a special interest group on leadership in medical education which meets um approximately monthly happy to Prof provide more information if anybody is interested so if you are go ahead and contact Dr music and he will show you how to get more involved in that group but becoming involved at a regional level local Regional National level growing in those roles is another way seems curious that we all expect Physicians to be leaders in a variety of contexts but we don't really provide the education on leadership as a part of formal training I do think I do think we're better about that now I can't speak at the first and second year level but I know in our Residency program we have a a series of four lectures about um how to be a teacher you know for the students and so that's repeated every two years so kind of every six months there's a a lecture that's given so I think there is more emphasis on on how to be a teacher at least At The Residency level foreign leadership things at the student level now um Dr Knight or yes there are through through the double AMC and its various groups absolutely looks like Dr bazinji and then Dr mizra questions as well yeah one thing this is one thing I wanted to say we always think of mentors as somebody very senior to us usually a senior faculty member and a young for a early Junior faculty I think mentors can be the other way around uh I found to myself a junior faculty that joined us many years back that was many many years Junior than me and I found a lot of talent and interest in him that I went to him and and actually I asked him to be my mentor and I found tremendous value in that so I just wanted to make that comment that Mentor is not necessarily need to be a very Junior a senior person sometimes it can be the other way around right yeah I think another thing with that too is sometimes those or Junior people may have a lot more enthusiasm and you know um they they're really excited to be mentors maybe the first time that maybe they've been a mentor um formally so I think that's a great you know a great point to bring up Dr olindor uh mentioned it's a only a matter of time until we have more um curriculum on um leadership training as we add competencies we need to remove curricular items or lengthen training which I don't know of anybody's in favor of lengthening that training at this point um Dr Smith some professional organizations have become to embrace the idea of evidence-based education absolutely and Dr misra um he was not reading in his hand he was only clapping um they can always comment I mean I can always comment and one of the other comments that I have is you know a lot of organizations invest a lot of time I mean the military um and the VA which um both intimately familiar with invest significant amounts of time and if you look at what that does for the person um in terms of growth and in terms of providing a path for growth and expectations on how to advance it's very fulfilling not only for the mentoring but the mentor and then the second thing is is you know it has a huge impact on the organization um I don't remember the exact number for the military but for Physicians 20 of the annual salary is spent in Recruitment and Retention um and so you're talking you think about how many of the positions that we have on staff and if we're not keeping them we're going to be looking for them if we're not giving them growth opportunities we're not making them having a fulfilling work-life balance these are things that are intangible in the education process yeah that Canadian study that I would that I showed at the beginning um the the people that went through that course said that just being called a leader um and sort of you know being selected for that that um sort of leadership group they started seeing themselves as leaders and so um I think that that's a you know a really important part of just investing in our own Charlotte do you have your uh official hand raise that what I'm seeing maybe it's just not put down yet anybody else I think we're probably almost out of time anyway at five until um so I think on behalf of the panel we just want to thank everybody for attending and um Sherry are there any housekeeping issues as far as how they get credit or there aren't other than if you again if you have a name that's indiscernible is connected with your Zoom account please um just let Deb Theron know or email her and so that she can just count you that you've um participated so thank you all so much for attending thank you to the panel for a great presentation and some wonderful resources as always um this session has been recorded the PowerPoint presentation will also be on the website if you it's definitely something that I'm going to go back to and uh check out some of the resources that you provided so thank you so much and I hope everybody has a wonderful healthy and happy day bye everyone bye.