Crafting Your Academic Narrative: A Hands-on CV Workshop for Faculty

Welcome to today's session so good to see you all um so today we're talking about as you all know creating your CV maintaining your CV uh or in other words crafting your academic narrative right and so what we'll do is we'll go through a brief presentation brief is presentation maybe about 25 minutes and then we'll go ahead and if you all have any direct questions pass them throughout or can also focus on each of you we have four of us that can walk through and help you um guide you through the process if you have specific questions or uh any additional guidance beyond what we provide through the presentation okay oh yeah we are recording this um we are naturally going to put it out it we're just going to assess it to see how well it comes out in this format because it's like a workshopy thing so we may just share the the original presentation content so just to let yall know good point okay so by the end of today's session you all should be able to recognize the purposes of preparing an updated uh CV you may or not be familiar with that already describe the importance of both the content and the organization um to a really helpful and effective CV okay and then really after the session you should be able to go and prepare and update your own CV right and if you need to call us you can always call us or additional information obviously okay so we hear over the next two slides we're going to talk about some sort of overlapping terms that we sometimes use synonymously but and in some parts they overlap but they're not synonymous so when we talk about a CV in a portfolio when you think about a CV portfolio what do you think are like the distinguishing characteristics of a CV and a portfolio right right good right anybody else you might have examples of your work in the portfolio which wouldn't appear in the CV absolutely so here some uh just general guidelines so a CV is just like an organized listing it still may be 45 pages at some point in your careers um and length uh it's of your accomplishments describe to what you do and what you have done I welcome um so uh it it can be quite extensive however I like to say that's a listing and then when we think about a portfolio it's like the embodiment of everything that's within your CV right like you say I uh presented this session now you don't want uh let's say you presented 20 sessions on different topics you don't want to put um your PowerPoint for each one of those I usually suggest the ones that you're most proud of those are the ones that you're going to put in your P portfolio as examples would you still agree with that okay great so it is your CV come alive and uh and it's more evidence of your accomplishments hopefully showing Your Excellence okay so and then and then we think of terms like CV versus bios sketch or resume um so I know when I first came into academics a couple of years ago uh I you know I was unfamiliar with what's the difference between a resume and a CV I kept hearing this uh CV and I got the job using my resume the resume can often be shorter but it's you know a listing it's usually used more in the um nonacademic RS right so just the basics the basics of here's my um the education that I've completed here are the jobs it wouldn't necessarily list all of your scholarly works or anything like that because outside of academics people don't know what to do with that they're not really excited about that so um and it's very tailored to it can be very tailored to the position uh my son is 16 years old right now and he would not he is applying for new jobs he would not be pulling together a TV he's going to look at okay I want to work at this restaurant so this is what I'm going to put um restaurant versus when I'm going to go and apply to this retail job I'm going to put different types of experience that I've had um so but your CV really emphasizes your academic accomplishments used when applying for jobs or showing your productivity within uh within academic jobs right so we use them for a lot of different reasons here where're we are this is not a plan your exit type of session um because we hope that you are staying here and you're going to De demonstrate your continued Excellence within this organization on an ongoing basis and for promotion and or annual um academic evaluation the link will always depend on your experience includes a complete list of your Publications posters presentations um so I think Dr music during his part he'll talk a little bit about sometimes um what elements can spit out is super extensive right like it will tell you all of your CME activities that you've participated in that's nothing that's going to be helpful yeah it they have taken steps it can still do that if you wanted it to but if you do a regular CV pull it's not going to pull those types of things any longer um but your length is still going to depend on your years of experience all of your activities that you've done um Dr music CV um it is quite substantial it's going to be really long um somebody who's more Junior it's it's not going to be nearly that long but he's got a lot in there um but you're it's always going to begin with your sort of like I think that the very beginning Parts sort of resemble what a resume might look like it starts with your education your your job experiences and then it goes into the full CD St um and then a bios sketch when somebody asks you for your bios sketch we of because we' host so many um different sessions we will often ask for when external presenters come in we'll ask for a brief biosketch that I can use for their introduction um otherwise it's going through their vast CV to sort of figure out what's important and relevant for their talk but they can just do that and summarize it often people have a bios sketch um in place I know that there's different formats folks use if if you're just doing a basic bios sketch um that's going to include one thing and then there's like NIH level of BIOS sketches which have a very concrete format and template um um but for a bios sketch it's the sketchy part is like just super brief okay so the main elements that you want to include in a CV and or resume are your experience and accomplish ments I tend to think that the CV captures both and allinclusive whereas a um a resume is just more like your experience accomplishments is um more numbers uh what change are improved um again that embodiment of what your experience um brought you and brought others okay so um for our CV so we have a system I hope you all has everybody been into elements at at some point I'm hoping so as I'm looking around the room and see these are folks who have been here a little bit at least most of you um so elements is the system we use for tracking academic activity here at Virg um so all faculty are encouraged and required to enter all of this information and keep it updated um regularly when we say up to date we us usually mean like within the last six months um that it should be up to date U I know that's easier said than done but you sort of started to feel that crunch when it gets towards the fall and you have to go through academic promotion or I'm sorry academic evaluation your annual evaluation and so your chair or whomever uh you report to directly will want to see all of that academic productivity in there um and uh elements will automate the process of your CV and faculty Affairs has done a lot to sort of improve that process um but you always want to look at it if you're asking it to provide a CV report out you definitely want to review it make sure it's got all of the things that you need to include and it doesn't have a lot of stuff that you don't need to include I know when I print out my CV it's got a lot of redundancies for one reason or another and a lot of those you can clean up within elements and a lot and they'll be permanent so I'm like oh I put this Grand rounds I presented in both this section and another section I just need to clean that up and um make sure that I'm consistent with where I put those um if that's the case you clean it up and it's going to be permanent there are other things that are just incidentally like duplicates and you may have to do it each time to just make sure it's what you want there are four main activities of um uh productivity um for promotion for really firing and promotion um so who knows what the four areas are that we focus on like these four pillars that we focus on um within BTC and really any teaching teaching is one yep and four research teaching research and scholarly activity yep s two service service history well this one would definitely come at a little bit of lost to you because you're basic science right so the fourth one is patient care so you wouldn't have that so if you're involved in patient care um they want to see a little bit of activity in all four if you're not um then they definitely want to see activity in three but they want to show the most development in at least two of the areas for promotion did I say that correctly pretty much okay unless you're in the 10e track unless you're in the 10e track is anybody in the 10 10e track here okay well then um they want to make sure that you have development in all freed and I would distinguish between what we call the tenure track which is University employed faculty who are trying to get tenure to employment for Virginia Tech in what we call tenure to title which is what for clinicians uh and and so you have to really demonstrate strong activity in all three of those areas that can the Virginia Tech based you're in the tenure to title track it's a good idea but it's not quite the bar is not quite as high as it is for University level so where where do you go um out reach when you go the for to do where does it go anywhere is that CH it depends on what is I would I often uh consider some volunteer activities and things like that as service um so a lot of the things and unless you're going to teach to the community and that may u be teach what what you want to do is there are these different sections but the most important thing is really being consistent if you went to the same activity and you're teaching within the community one year and then you're doing the same activity the next year or something or similar you want to make sure they're both either in service or teaching you don't want one in service and one in teaching that's what can happen and that's where a lot of duplication can happen and get a little so um generally most people in promotion have uh if if you're a physician you'll always have patient care right um a lot of folks have teaching and as their next one or scholarship and then service usually is not the main would you say second area can um so teaching involves everything so all levels of Medical School uh uh the research institute any point on the Continuum so if you're teaching medical students residents fellows peers you know peer faculty all goes in there um a lot of different formats we consider we're very open with how we interpret teaching so it can be through mentoring um Elena and I were just having a conversation about um you know the shift in the curriculum it's not going to be standing up at a lectur anymore and teaching in the same way but it's still teaching it's a different type of te you're teaching a group of people and um and all of those take different pedagogical skills okay clinical care in the presence of Learners service and scolar activity and or research any questions on any of these yes so I feel like I've got a good sense of how to measure three of those four but how exactly do you measure clinical care I know this is more about CB but in terms of promotion and stuff how do you excel at that how do you not like how do you demonstrate that CB so you want to speak to that sure can um what we frequently see in this area is like a listing of your clinical activities like I teach on inpatient rounds this many times a year I teach in the Outpatient Clinic and you just designate which Learners you have with you at that time and then I've also seen folks even include copies of like their individual scorecard reports and that sort of thing which is fine uh it's supposed to show that you're involved in clinical care but the in the presence of Learners is the most important for that Mak sense thank you and it's it's going to be very variable what what it looks like to you is going to be very different than it looks like to Lauren and Etc okay so I mentioned already Ure that you have't updated with all your recent activities there are various ways of keeping up with this sometimes people are like okay the last Friday of the month I'm going to go in there and just designate to putting update my CV or my elements um a lot of you have folks within your department well everybody has somebody within their department and or division that can help you with elements um with variable levels of proficiency um Brenda wolf within the medical school and faculty Affairs she is the super user of super users so she can go out and help everybody um but she can't do that for the entire uh faculty population so um all of these folks are trained throughout your department I suggest getting to know those people being very nice to them giving them chocolates whatever you need but uh they can help you get the information in and or keep it up Deb does this within our office she does a fabulous job of she works Sarah to say okay what are the things for this month that we need to get into um our group's CVS um and and then she she will upload those in because we share a lot of them too if we we're on a publication oftentimes we're on a publication together and that's that can be helpful because really and we'll talk about this a little bit later but if you have one publication going in that's shared you don't want the four of you is shared at a publication you don't want each of you entering it um because then that can be duplicative but let's say Damien wanted to enter it um he would enter it and then tag each of the other three of you and then it will automatically populate on your elements uh within your Elements which is pretty cool so have that conversation about who's going to do that okay include everything you've accomplished a question yes about that um so if if it's connected to your orid it's supposed to autoc copulate so if everyone let's say an example you cited where you have like four VTC faculty who are co-authoring a paper and they're all having like Orchid or scopus or whatever auto updates to elements is it then going to duplicate four times is that what you're saying or so no it won't if it comes to you and you just accept it um that would that's totally fine and really a better example that I would have given should have given is so Dr music and I are presenting this session together and Orchid won't roll this session but we will and so we won't both enter it or the four of us won't all enter it it will be more one person will enter it and tag each of us and then it'll be that make sense so you're talking about more for manual up manual entry yes sorry about that yep a lot of things do if they are um if they're out there and they have a u their index they will automatically come through or generally and then it's really a cool system where you just go in there and they'll say is this you are you this Sherry worker and I'll just say yep okay and I do still get things from a long time ago that pop up and thought I already accepted that but okay I'll get credit for that um but that's one of the things uh like if if it's out there and with a maybe sometimes I use Sherry wicker sometimes I use Sherry a wicker and so it will um see those as two different entries and so you have to be careful that that's not dtive and then what you need to delete it by hand one by one because my curricular all the stuff has a lot of repetitions because before I did I put as a poster I put again as a conference right so now I know better but the old stuff I feel tired just to think about you have to go there and delete manually one by one it's just looking at it and when when you're about to use your CV printing it out and being like or having somebody help you to do that no but that's the what I done every time I print and then I fix the printed version not the ele one every time sometimes you do have to do that you can download it into a Word file and then you edit the word file in fact when you generate a CD from elements it's automatically put into a Word file that you can then edit and I'm tempted to climb up on the sub box here but there is really no such thing as a database that will pres that will produce a perfect CV for anybody I'm familiar with about six or eight of these systems they all have their problem s none of them will spit out a perfect CV so you have to do some editing of your CV yourself it's just unavoidable I think in some ways we've created an expectation here that unfortunately is we keep having to battle a little bit I think we created the expectation that oh if you just put everything in digital measures which was what we used before elements or now elements then it'll crank out the perfect CVS with push of a button it just won't do that and it's funny because we all we all complained about element or I'm sorry digital measures when digital measures was here and now I'm like oh I really like that about digital measures but elements that now so we can complain about elements now until we switch okay uh establish your own Rhythm for regular update whatever that may be try to keep it up and updated means within the past uh previous six months so I just showed this I haven't updated this since because I definitely have updated it since uh July of 2023 but this is the last time we did this session but it will show up in um up in elements when it was generated that's not necessarily when it was last updated but it was when the CV was okay um so there is this is super important it's long everything you never wanted to know but need to know about um uh your CV is in this St document um we we can share this presentation with you and it's just a link um I think it's just about 14 pages but it is um really helpful information every time we review it we find something else that that we forgot about so but yes uh all entries should appear in order of most recent activities so reverse chronological order um and elements will automatically do that for you you don't have to worry about messing around the next two slides are basically these major CV sections right these are the major sections and as I mentioned before if you've got something that you put into uh teaching on a regular basis keep it in teaching if if you're not sure to put it in scholarly activity or research which those are bad examples but um if you're in between deciding if they belong in one or two uh of two sections just be consistent and keep it in one for the other okay so personal information the basics the days of old when we were doing our resumés um oftentimes I don't know why we ever put but Social Security numbers up at the top um your phone number like I think some there is some place in there still like if you have a spouse autographs in the old days yeah photographs Glamour Shots whatever it was there um but we don't need to do all that any more um uh you don't even need to have uh like your Med medical license number any of that okay um all of your educational history your profess professional history all of that should be included if you got any awards make sure that they're in there those are big accomplishments there are things that folks are uh so my faculty appointment is in Pediatrics um so some I have these discussion with pediatricians a lot and um and I know because I sit on the education committee for them and and I'll ask I've said that you make sure that's on your CV right they're developing a a big curriculum um for the medical students and she's like well I never really thought I never really thought about putting that on my CV with that's a huge element that would be considered for promotion absolutely if you're developing any sort of educational activity for any level learner make sure you get credit for that put that in there um your grants any a grants same person uh had a grant for like $5,000 well that's really just a small Grant yes it's a small Grant doesn't mean it takes less time um to apply for that Grant uh also you can put in like let's say you've just submitted a grant and you you're going up for promotion put that in rant is under review absolutely because it still took just as much work you can even keep unfunded grants in there to say you know I worked a lot on this it didn't get funded but we'll try again okay all those types of things um and we'll get a little bit more into this when we get hands on you can ask us where we think each goes um this take this away from me go for it okay thank you so I'm gonna pick up the pace a little bit here because we definitely do want to leave some time for some uh questions or just individual work on your CV or whatever we've given you a couple of examples here of how to actually enter things in your CV now why do we do that well mostly because when we review a lot of CVS we find some of these things are are missing and so it's good to point out like when you're doing Journal article entry make sure that you have all the details including the DOI number which is digital object identifier as well as a pmid number you probably get away with one or the other probably don't need both but very important to put that in there because that's a way that somebody can find your article very easily now some of your older articles may not have but basically all the more recent ones do so be sure that you include that in there you got an example at the top of a journal article entry and then at the bottom is a presentation entry and again just make sure when you enter your presentations which basically is a manual process that you include enough detail so I frequently see CVS where you'll have a nice presentation entered but it won't say when it was or it won't say the name of the meeting or it won't say where it was so just make sure you have all those things covered in your in your entries that way also a couple of other examples um here's a sample entry for funded contract or a funded Grant we've had some controversy around percent of effort so if you've been around a while you may know that we used to require a percent of effort but what we found that that was so widely defined in different different ways by different disciplines and it was just really hard to come up with a standardized approach to that so we basically said you don't really need to put that in there anymore if you want to put it in there that's okay but it's not a requirement because percent of effort is defined differently it can mean how much time am I being funded for or how much of my time is the grant buying out or can mean how much time am I spending on it whether I've gotten any funding for it or not and we just found that people are all over the chest board in terms of how they so we kind of let that drop so that number there um like the 108 737 that would be the number brought into that's the total amount of the grant total amount of the grant so not what you brought into the school of medicine specifically yeah if you if you're like a A suby or something like that you could list both so like if you're part of a larger Grant and then maybe it's got multiple institutions and it's three or4 million dollar and then your part here is x amount you can put both of them in there yeah it's probably a good idea so we're going to jump into a little different area here about publication metrics going to go through this pretty quickly because some of this may or may not be highly relevant to your CV although it's becoming more so so you have a slide here just to kind of illustrate in the last that 10year period from 2010 to 2020 the growth in the number of journals is just exploded and so this really has relevance for where you submit your work there's all kinds of journals out there seeking people to publish with them if you're like me I get I don't know three or four of these emails every week that that somehow get past the the filter and they're begging me to come and present submit my article for publication like for example in a journal about obgy and Medicine which I know nothing about so you know that they're not being very uh judicious about they're just sending it out and hoping to catch everybody they can so a lot of uh Journal activity the number of journals has just exploded particularly in the last decade or so so what about publication metrics here's a slide that we could talk for a long time about these are the most commonly used publication metrics that are starting to pop up in people's CVS um the simplest one is probably the citation count and this is simply the number of times that a work of a given author has been cited period the journal impact fac factor is very controversial um we're starting to see that pop up but the university and a number a large number of other organizations have had have said there are major flaws with this in terms of How It's calculated it was really not ever intended to be something that would reflect on the individual accomplishment of a of a person it's really more of a metric designed to um reflect on how uh the journal as a whole is doing and if you go back to when this started originally the purpose of it was to actually provide some guidance for librarians when they were trying to figure out which journals they should purchase access to so the the JF I'm starting to see that more in CVS people will have a citation about their article and then at the end of the citation it'll say Journal impact factor or whatever that's okay if you want to put it in there just understand that it's so subject to interpretation and so controversial that it may not be that helpful for you H index is the number of times um I'm sorry the number of Publications for which a given author has been cited by other authors at least that same number of times so in other words if your H index is 17 that means you've had 17 published papers that have each been cited at least 177 times and then the I index uh is the number of Publications with at least 10 citations I don't know how familiar you are with these things some of you may be very familiar with some of you may be seeing this for the first time the university has published guidance I think we give a link to that in terms of how you should and should not use these things it's interesting uh some of the other colleges at Virginia Tech require their their uh CVS to public to have their impact factors in there or they might require people if they want to be promoted to publish in certain journals with a certain impact factor I guess they can decide that but it's it's really kind of controversial y curiosity question because you know about this um at least in the last 10 years uh my peers keep U you know doing citations of themselves yep so does that way to inflate the citation here okay so but I guess it's going to be a method where maybe it won't count if you're you know the algorithm eventually but I'm just saying that I've seen that oh yeah even if it's unrelated to what you're writing just now it happens a lot and there is really no there's no breaks put on it that's that's something that people tend to do and you know again if you're writing paper based on something that you wrote about prior and you want to site that paper that's fine but I'm afraid a lot of people are trying to game the system by cting their own work frequently second question related to the last slide uh but um when you submit a publication and it's pending do you write where it's pending to or do you just say it's pending I mean typically it's good to provide the journal name and then say submitted or accepted submitted okay something like that got it yeah now what you have to do if you do that in elements then when the outcome happens when you know like you submitted it well four months later if it gets accepted you got to remember to go back in El and change that to accepted I mean eventually when I submit something to the New England Journal of Medicine and it gets rejected and nature and then I end up publishing in the Rono County Medical Society yeah but you know and I just keep changing it sure yeah that's another trick guys is there um for the metrix um is there one that's preferred by the school of medicine or no we haven't in our guidelines we haven't we haven't addressed this yet we've we've talked about it we've kicked it around various committees um I think part of the issue here is that we're still a very new medical school we're not brand new anymore obviously but we're newer and so our faculty is still uh newer and there's not a widespread understanding of of these types of things so we talk about it some I've written some articles about it for internal use but we're just not at the point where I don't think enough people understand these things to really make use of it very much I personally think the i1 index or the citation count are the two that probably are the easiest to use and I'm going to show you something in just a second that kind of illustrates that and so there's lots of sources out there you can search various databases indeed this is part of the problem with a lot of these publication metrics is that different companies which are private take different approaches to how they handle these things so I'll show you that in just a minute and we've also giving you the link there to the University's official statement on the responsible use of research methodics sort of a roadmap for what to do and whatnot to do in case you're interested now somebody mentioned earlier the Orchid ID which is a very valuable thing if you don't have an orchid ID set up we would strongly encourage you to do that it's free and easy we've given you the link there and elements when it goes out and crawls online every 24 hours it looks for things primarily based on your orchid ID I reviewed a CV from one of our faculty members not too long ago who had a very common name I'm not going to tell you what the name was my my example I usually use is Bruce Johnson Bruce is retired but some of you know Bruce well if you have a name like Bruce Johnson and you don't have an orchid ID that thing is going to go out and find hundreds of Publications with somebody named Bruce Johnson on and then when Bruce sits down and looks at his elements profile he's got to go through every one of them and say yes this is me or no this is not me if you have your orchid ID then that distinguishes me as Bruce Johnson from all the other Bruce Johnson's out there and so it just makes it easier that's the primary reason to do it so would strongly encourage you to set that up if you haven't already because it's really helpful and more and more journals are actually asking for you to provide this information when you submit they want to know what your orchid ID is everybody familiar with Google Scholar okay good well I've spend a long time on it um again A lot of people are aware of this a lot of people aren't um so there's a link there to set up your own Google Scholar profile if you haven't already I know the last time we did this Workshop almost nobody had done that so if you've already done that we can just move on but this is mine um the big reason I'm going to show you here Google Scholar you'll notice the H index on this one is 15 but if you look at a a different way of doing this um I thought we had an additional well maybe not sorry about that I thought we had an extra slide in there but I missed it um my Google my um Google Scholar says my H index is 15 but if I go to web of science it says my H index is 11 it has to do Google Scholar all the way then it has to do with how the companies grab the data and how they classify and all that that's one of the real problems with the whole publication metrics thing okay and it's also becoming more prominent and widespread now for journals to provide the actual article Lev level metric so when you publish an article you might see something like this this is an article that myself and some other people published uh back in 2023 and they track over time the number of views and the number of downloads of that sort of thing that the article itself generates so more and more journals are starting to do this which is kind of cool if you want to if you want to track your own work that way so what about alt metrics anybody heard this term alternative metrics this is meant to complement traditional metrics and this is where you track your work via a lot of different other methods for example how many times was it downloaded on on some on a web page on YouTube something like that was it covered by any news agencies how many other researchers have seen it and are commenting on it this is a time where this is really getting started and get and becoming very prominent and so inside elements I think there's a way that it it tracks these things and you can pull this up on your article's inside elements okay home stretch here pay attention when you're doing your CV to readability make sure you use uh good punctuation include page numbers um make them make things head out make category headings stand out if you can I always suggest you number your Publications and present presentations now elements will not do that for you so when you download your CV into word then you have to go to that section and tell word to put the numbers on it I like to do that because particularly for the Publications because you can go scroll to the end and quickly get that number without having to count uh so that's pretty important U always distinguish between attracts and articles that are versus are not peerreview I see a lot of CVS from our faculty I'm not saying it's on purpose but I'm saying a lot of times these things will be jump up and things will be in the peer reviewed section that are obviously not peer reviewed like letters to editors or thing like that they'll have things like that listed with the heing peer reviewed Publications when it's obviously not so just make sure that you pay attention to that and also try to avoid too many abbreviations or specific jargon or institutional nomenclature because a lot of folks are not going to know what that means most common CV mistakes including too much personal information are not including enough information or omitting the details uh incomplete citation information for Publications duplicate entri for Dr we could talked about putting things in the incorrect categories that's a little tricky because as the example of service you know if you go out and do teaching at a local high school do do you count that as teaching or do you count that as service it's really not right or wrong to put it in either one just be consistent in terms of where you put can I ask a question that or so would it be appropriate if someone's lacking say in the service SE they so they decided like okay teaching within the community I'm going to designate as service to help kind of balance out your absolutely yeah you got that Latitude y for sure and general proof reading just make sure that you understand that every CV as we say in the red font here is not finished when it comes out of a computer program you've really got to take the time to look at it as I always say to faculty you are the responsible person for your CV I talk to a lot a faculty who will turn in a sloppy CV and their immediate response is well my Administrative Assistant didn't do a very good job on that okay I understand where you're coming from particularly if you're a very busy clinician you're seeing patients 50 and 60 more hours a week and you don't have a lot of time for this but it's really up to you when your CV comes out it's really your uh your task to make sure that it's perfect or as close as possible yep I notice that U we can also assign a delegate but do they have to have a vt.edu address or can may be somebody from the outside that that can do that for you you do not have to have a vt.edu address because we have a lot of folks who are on the corillian side yeah that's what I mean or corillian side do they have to have one or the other so I'm I'm thinking you're you're at the VA right yes I'm thinking that we could get an administrative assistant at the VA access the same way we do other okay so if we if we need to work on that let me know thank you yeah yeah Virginia Tech has been very generous in that regard you know they've said we're going to we're going to let non-employees access the system for the purpose of supporting faculty at the medical school so there's a lot of administrative assistants a lot of trained users Residency program directors and managers a lot of these folks have access to elements uh there's companies that help you in the old days they used to help us write our cves and you know make it perfect but now that essentially the clinician has to essentially order ad has to enter it they're not as good as the experts are there companies out there that can kind of glance at your stuff and say okay I mean I just wanted to know if you knew about them because they can the information on on the elements is is is public you can just send the link to someone say hey do you see any mistakes and then either the clinician or yeah I don't know that they can actually get into elements but you could certainly send them a like the Microsoft Word version and say hey look at this I don't know if companies like that you all know are a lot of folks uh out in Hustle culture who will review CVS edit them for you do the same with reson what culture where do they live well it it's um I don't it's like a slang term hustle culture so like f people who on the side understand they have other jobs but on the side they do that like that lady that's an expert she would be a she could put her own website right yeah um so there are people out there that will do it and there are a lot of folks in uh higher at adjacent um career path that that will do that for you thank you it's mostly editing focused yeah so I'm afraid we took up a little bit too much time with our presentation but we have tried to answer questions as we went along so hopefully that's been helpful we have a few minutes left to either answer specific questions or we can come around and work with you on individual CVS the last comment I'll make um Virginia Tech is interesting in that they don't really have a required CV format so if you look at the nine colleges of Virginia Tech there is no consistency between them at all in terms of how people on The Faculty do their CVS um which is interesting because we're we're probably one of the only ones that have a standardized format don't tell anybody I said this but I'm not crazy about our CV format here I I really think it's a little bit unwieldy it's a little bit hard to work with we we're always working with the elements people at Virginia Tech to try to make that report better but I'm not a fan to be honest I I you know I pull it out into word and then I edit it myself and make it the way that it should look I have in fact I'll say this a couple of three times I've gone to various committees faculty committees and said hey maybe we should change this CV format and the answer is always no it's not perfect but we're used to it so I guess it's like the old uh refer to Dance with the Devil I know kind of thing as opposed to trying to start up a new one so you know it is what it is but just realize that you know it's it's something that you built into the medical school from the beginning and so it's Tradition now and it's hard for us to change these things but we're always trying to make it better so that it's doesn't come out a mess when you print it out of elements but it's always going to require a little help okay yep I have some I can show okay sure any any final questions as a group okay perfect well thank you I hope this has been useful and there's a lot out there if you're interested I brought my favorite article about Journal impact factor came out in April it says what the heck is a journal impact factor anyway dissemination measures for educators so if you're interested in reading a good article about this I I would recommend this one come up and take a look but there's a ton of stuff out there about impact factors and these other metrics I think it's very interesting that some of the colleges are requiring people to publish in certain journals based on that journal's impact factor right I I don't think that's something we will ever do here because I just think it's brought with Peril and I I guess they have their reasons for doing it but I don't see us ever saying to a faculty member here you will have to have this many Publications in this journal before you can be promoted to me that's just I don't think we ought to go there and with an uh an impact factor if if you're a clinician for example and you see like an impact factor for your specialty it's like 48 or something like that and then you publish something in medical education and you're like well it's true um so comparing those two isn't really fair because that's just how different Specialties are so very variable we could do a whole presentation on this and talk about all the problems with it but it's it's really is kind of a gaming the system kind of thing that's why University's official guidance really discourages it in terms of making major decisions about things like promotion they basically say promotion is supposed to be a process of peer review by your colleagues and any data that you get like impact factor should supplement the qualitative input of your peers not substitute for it but it's a number and everybody likes numbers I guess so hey it's grab that number anyway very good.